Thursday, April 4, 2013

DEAR FELLOW GOD SEEKERS


Who is Jesus?  One of the misconceptions many Christians have, is they expect Muslims to 
have little respect for Jesus. This simply from what I understand is not true.  Muslims
understanding of the Qu’ran and their Imams as I understand agree on the following;

1. Jesus was born of a virgin.
2. He was the Messiah.
3. He performed many miracles, including healing the sick and raising the dead.
4. He was a prophet.29
5. He was completely sinless throughout his entire earthly existence.
6. God raised Jesus to heaven.
7. He will come back to earth before the Day of Judgment.
8. He is the “Word of God.”

Muslims may sometimes interpret some of these points differently from Christians, but 

they provide a good start for discussing the faith each of us has in Jesus.

A huge difference between the faith of Islam and Christianity is how they view the term 

“Son Of God.”  Muslims, however, do not believe Jesus is the “Son of God.”  God is 

Spirit— He has no physical body for procreating. God has no wife. Mary was a virgin. 

Muslims would remind us that pagans believed in gods who had wives and children, but 

this cannot be said of the true God. Every time the Qur’an  denies Jesus is the “Son of God,”

it is denying that Jesus is God’s offspring in the sense that humans have offspring.” 
(Handbook on Islam for Christians Serving in the US Armed Forces Donald S. Tingle)

What I would say to my Muslim friend is; God or Allah is not in a LITERAL sense God’s Son.  

Only in how he relates to man.  Jesus has no mother.  God is not literally the father of Jesus.  

Understand as man we will never be able to completely understand, that God Himself came to 

Earth to do what no man could do. That this was the plan of God, and that God wants to have

a genuine, family relationship with His people.  To try and explain this I am inserting a sermon I 

gave during Christmas time on this question on the Son of God.  This insert will delve into the 

area of Mormonism because they also struggle with the concept that Jesus is the Son of God.  

Thank you for your replies and input.  May God richly bless you.

1.            Who is Jesus?

One apologetic facts that gives Christianity credibility is we never rely on one isolated verse to 

determine who Jesus is.  Over 700 years before Jesus came that first Christmas Daniel 7 

gives us a picture or what we mean when we say Jesus is the Son of Man and son of God.  

Listen to Daniel 7 starting in verse 13. Listen to verse thirteen:  In my vision at night I 

looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of 

heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was 

given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every 

language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass 

away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. 

Notice first this passage uses designation that was the favorite title Jesus used of 

himself: Son of Man.  That term is used over 80 times, just in the Gospels.  This 

passage was written 700 years before God was born of a virgin, we now 

celebrate as Christmas.  So when Jesus uses the term Son of Man; where is he 

claiming he came from?

Verse thirteen Clouds of heaven; Jesus existed before his birth in heaven.  But at the 

same breath he is Son of Man, this eternal one is both From heaven-God and from 

earth Man.  The God man. 

Next notice he comes before the Ancient of Day-That is God the Father.  Here is 

one more biblical place where we see the concept of the trinity: One god three 

persons-Not three God’s.  Because in this passage we are told that both the Ancient 

of Days and Son of Man are titles of deity.  

Son of man second person of the Trinity God the Son, creator entering into Creation 

to save mankind from his sins-this is what we should be celebrating at Christmas.  

Notices the last part of this passage in Daniel 7;  every part of verse 14 is worship 

language: and worship is reserved for whom? 

God alone!  So when we say Jesus is the Son of God; we are saying he is 

worthy of our Worship! He is worthy because according to Daniel 7 He is the 

King of Kings and Lord or Lords!

  The Jews knew this verse, and had waited hundreds of years for it’s 

fulfillment, and Jesus birth at Bethlehem it is fulfilled.  Notice how massive this 

statement is The one coming is going to rule over all peoples, his kingdom will 

never end and he is eternal! 

Time and time again in the Old Testament the Ancient of Days says to the 

world in Scripture He is Coming, He is coming!  My paraphrase; Almighty 

God is coming and going to enter into human history like a man, who will 

establish a kingdom for all that will never end.   This Son of Man-Son of God 

is to be worshiped, honored and glorified by man no matter what your ethnicity 

is, what your race is, what your sexual orientation is, what your cultural 

background is; everyone, everywhere should honor him! 

This is who Jesus is !  It is why we celebrate Christmas!  That is a 

massive statement-That is massive statement that has changed the world.

Now we enter into the immediate context of the birth of Jesus. Hundreds 

of silent years people have been waiting for whom? Son of Man!  

Son of God! Jesus himself confesses this Great truth in Luke 22 out of a 

bloody mouth .  You can not make a clearer statement of deity than that!  

And He does so in front of his enemies and on trial, recorded in public record, 

with nothing to gain for His confession.  Let me remind you what Luke 22:71 

says; They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?”  He replied, “You are 

right in saying I am.”   Then they said, “Why do we need any more testimony? We have 

heard it from his own lips.”

The issue for the Jewish leaders and for us today about Jesus is one thing: are you the 

Son of God?  Are they not saying He is guilty?  Guilty of what?  Blasphemy-Claiming to 

be God!  Are they not asking Jesus; are you saying you are the only God?  Jesus is

saying if that’s a crime then I am guilty and put me to death!  He is the Son of God!

2.What does the title Son of God mean?

Let me start by telling you what it does not mean.  Actually this issue has been in 

background of the news or our recent election and in the Middle East.  Because the 

issue of what does the title Son of God mean?   This is what separates Christians 

from Mormons and Muslims.  One issue in this past election was a Mormon running 

for president, are Mormons Christians?  Do they believe Jesus is the Son of God? 

At the same time in the background there is an ongoing debate on how we 

translate the bible for Muslims.  The debate is this; should we call Jesus the 

Son of God?  Translators in Istanbul make the case Muslims struggle with that concept.  

Both issues are right out of the headlines and both issues ask the question; Is Jesus the

Son of God?

  Before I go on let me make a clear statement; I am not judging anyone.  God alone is 

man’s judge. The bible is clear in the Old and New Testament it is man’s privilege to 

choose.  In Joshua we are asked chose this day who you will serve.  Paul in 

Philippians says we are to work out our Salvation with fear and trembling. 

Implying That there are right and wrong choices and they have consequences!  

I say this because the people I have met who are Jehovah Witness, Muslim, 

New agers and Mormons are good people!  I like them.  But from that I draw 

the conclusion they want to do what is right, but are being deceived by false 

teachers!

Now let me give you what the Mormon Church teaches about Jesus being the 

Son of God.   If you sat down with two Mormon Missionaries or Elders and 

asked them Is Jesus the Son of God?  I am certain they both would say; 

Yes we believe Jesus is the Son of God.  So does that mean they are 

Christians?  I do not believe so and here is why.  Ask them what they 

mean?  Because Cults and false teachers always twist definitions of 

words.  If you dig into Mormon theology you will see, they teach men

become gods, not that God became man, but that man can become a god. 

When they become gods they can impregnate women and they have children 

that become the sons of God. Oh that’s different –yeah we are heaven and 

earth apart on this issue!  So what they would teach is that there is a god 

called God the Father, who has all the working parts of man and this 

man had actual intercourse with a teen age girl called Mary and got her pregnant.  

She gave birth to Jesus, because God was a glorified spirit being this makes 

Jesus a son of a god.  According to this thinking lots of people are sons of a god.  

This is not what Jesus taught, it is not what the Bible teaches, therefore it is not 

what orthodox Christians believe.

  First go back to Luke 1:26 and you will see that Mary is a virgin. In addition in 

the Old Testament and New Testament it says God is not a Man.  In fact in 

John 4 Jesus tells us God is spirit and must be worshiped so!  What they over 

do is an extreme literal ism.

   So let me give you a 2 dollar word: Hermeneutics, means to interpret and it’s 

how we understand the bible.  Now understand we do view and understand the 

Bible literally, we just go off the rails if are as literal as the Mormons with 

Biblical language. 

For example if I were to say I am hungry.  You would say I believe Roger has 

preached too long, he is hungry.  Maybe there would be one who would say 

that maybe he hunger he is refers to the  Freudian desire for complete 

wholeness and the rest of you would say whatever! 

What it means is Texas Road House that’s what it means!  But let’s say I came 

to you and say: I am so hungry I could eat a horse.  Would you say; really a 

whole horse?  Most would under-stand I am using a figure of speech.  I do not 

want a horse with sauce an all.  So you would say that does not make sense; oh

I get it a hyperbole so he wants two steaks.

We do this all the time; a group of guys see a gal walking toward them they 

say she is really hot!  You being the nerd so no I think she looks like she has a 

normal temperature.  Girls same thing a nice looking Goy you say he is Hot!  

A figure of Speech, does notcmean they are on fire-it means they are attractive.  

The Bible does this all the time!

                So a good way to approach the bible is first approach verses

as literally true.  If that does not work then we go to a figurative language- 

literal truth.  If that is not possible, we then approach the text as a literal truth 

expressed in a figure of speech.  So what the Mormons do is say God is the 

Father and Jesus is the Son of God-so God must be a man who had a son by 

Mary!  Wrong Answer!

 Because if you do this you end up with some really weird views of God.  

For example Ps 91:4 says He shall cover you with His feathers, And under 

His wings you shall take refuge.  Okay, if take this literally then God is a 

Chicken and according to this verse one day I will stand before a huge 

chicken to give an account for my life.  Including all the chicken wings I ate.  

So hopefully you take a pause and say I don’t think that’s right.  

I think it’s figure of speech to express the literal truth God loves and 

care for us.  Like a mother hen care for her chicks.

Beautiful word picture if you understand literal, figurative language.

So celebrating Christmas by worshiping the Son of God does not mean

he is one of many gods-but the one true God!

   Think of it this way, we are nowhere near then intelligence of

God.  For example there not a lot beyond our three pound fallen

brain, that we understand ?  Especially when it comes to there is

one God, who reigns forever, in three persons in perfect union and

communion. Without a physical being but out of nothing created

everything.  And they love, serve and glorify one another.  I do not

know about you, but my brain is starting to sweat.  So okay let’s put

this literal truth in figurative language so my children can under-

stand.  There is one God, there are three persons a Father, Son

and spirit who share attributes, life and communion.  But at the

same time totally separate.

So we do not believe men can become gods.  And that gods can

impregnate women.  This is why the orthodox Christians consider

the teaching of the Mormon Church as false; because the bible

teaches there is one God and three persons.  Not that there are

many Gods.

  Now if a Muslim comes along he immediately thinks the same

thing the Mormons do.  Are you saying God the Father is a

physical being, who inhabits a body impregnates a Jr High Girl and

Jesus is born Making him the Son of God.  They would tell you

that is scandalous, that is horrible, that can’t be true, so they reject

the teaching that Jesus is the Son of God!  There is a lot of things

we disagree with Muslims but on this we agree: it is not sound

teaching to say God is a physical being who is intimate with a Jr

High Girl!  They would say that is wrong and it is wrong! 

Once again both Mormons and Muslims do not believe in the

trinity.  They do not believe that Jesus is God!  They do not believe

Jesus is both the Son of Man and the Son of god, because God

cannot die, so he must have swooned on the cross.  So they

would say Jesus is a prophet but he is not god!  They may even

say he was the best man who ever lived until Mohamed came

along.  They would go so far to say He is a Prophet.

Our response should be something like this. . .If as the scriptures

testify Jesus claimed not to be a prophet but the only God, how

can you call him a prophet?  You can’t say Jesus is a good man, if

he says he is god.  They would say that’s wrong, then how can

you say he is a good man?  What that actually makes him is a liar,

You cannot say he is a good man and prophet who lied about

being God.  That would make him a false prophet. 

So, who Is Jesus?  I believe all accounts point to One God, who came as the Man named; 

Jesus.  This God Man Jesus gave himself as atonement for Man’s sin. For God so loved 

the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not 

perish, but have everlasting life.   Truly God is merciful and Compassionate.

Every chapter in the Quar’an begins with “In the name of God, the merciful, the 

compassionate.” This is a truth that both Muslims and Christians should agree on 

Allah (Arabic for God) is compassionate and merciful. Let us be like Allah 

compassionate and merciful to one another.

Be God’s
Roger Miller

1 comment:

Anonymous said...

Assalamu Alaikom wa Rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh (May God's peace, blessings, and mercy be upon you),
First, sorry for the delayed reply as I'm busy, so I barely have time.
Second, didn't we agree that we won't debate?!
Anyways! ...
To answer the part that concerns Islamic definition of Jesus (pbuh) as a prophet and not as a God or a part of a God comes clearly from the Quran and the teachings of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh).
You seemed to agree on what you've read in the Quran, impressed me with your understanding then you kinda lost it in the end by shifting back to what you've always known, and I understand that, it's not easy, I can't imagine myself being in anyone's shoes!
Without going more into details, Allah (swt) tells us in the Quran that the Torah and the Gospel were manipulated by the people, it is no more the same as it was revealed from Him.
Because of that Allah took an Oath to Himself that He will keep the Quran from manipulation, and it is mentioned in chapter 15:
{Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian. (9)}
Ever heard of more than one arabic version of the Quran?
Not even a single letter is different from one copy to another!
Any attempt to change it failed over history, because it soon become discovered and then dismissed.
That is why we only trust the Quran as a reference, but we do believe that the Torah and the Gospel were originally revealed from God. And that's why you still see some similarities between the three books. There is also another book mentioned in the Quran called Zabboor, a revelation from God as well but it no longer exists for a wisdom that only God knows!
To answer the other part concerning 'How come we honer Jesus (pbuh) yet we don't believe he is the God? and since he mentioned it in the bible then we are basically saying he's a liar!'.
Again our reference is the Quran, the never ever changed word of God, it even answers your two questions, that he didn't tell people that he is the God and that he is truthful not a liar. In fact he'll be admitted to Paradise because of that. [Lucky he! I sure wish to be his neighbor in Paradise, God willing].
From chapter 5:
{And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. (116) I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness. (117) If You should punish them - indeed they are Your servants; but if You forgive them - indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (118) Allah will say, "This is the Day when the truthful will benefit from their truthfulness." For them are gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them, and they with Him. That is the great attainment. (119) To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is within them. And He is over all things competent. (120)}
Did you notice how Jesus (pbuh) mentions that after he was raised, he no longer knew what happened after him?!
Did you notice "You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself"?!
Do you want to wait until that day comes and this conversation happens in front of you? I don't know! All I know that, it will just be too late!
And God knows best.
Assalamu Alaikom (peace be upon you)
Your sister :)